Damn, I did it again...

"Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing." (granfury)
04/16/2019 at 16:33 • Filed to: None

Yet another computer, destined to be the new media server once I finish the stereo bench and set up the TV. It’s a Xeon-based workstation with 32gb of RAM and was only $150. Unlike my past HP experiments, I should be able to upgrade the power supply relatively easily...

DISCUSSION (14)

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2019 at 16:42

... uh, no.

Z420 is an 18 pin with I2C . Yes, I’m aware there is a complete idiot advising people to just ‘use sticky tape and cable adapters.’ You can hear my head hitting the desk from 3 states away.

facw > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2019 at 16:49

Seems like a nice deal for $150.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
04/16/2019 at 16:56

I just looked inside and it has the larger 600w power supply so I should be good with that. I did the adapter route on my 8300 and it died (related? Probably...) , but this adapter looked better. Regardless, I won’t be needing it. The only adapter I'll need is something for the stupid mini-HDMI adapter for the video card.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > facw
04/16/2019 at 16:59

It’s actually a little cheaper than that since I got $19 for the scrap DVR boards I had laying around whilst I waited for the next hazmat drop. And for $25-30 these guys have faster Xeon E5 CPUs if I need one. Worth the drive.

Chariotoflove > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2019 at 17:04

I kinda feel like you and Nibby are two facets of the same being, having been separated when the Crystal was shattered, and awaiting re-unification.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Chariotoflove
04/16/2019 at 17:21

Yeah, you're probably right. I was thinking along those lines myself...

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2019 at 17:40

Depends on which card it was configured with or what the previous owner threw in it. Would need to see a photo.

cberg > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2019 at 20:30

We used those towers for all manner of CGI work at Microsoft.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2019 at 20:43

Dang. That’s cheap.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > BaconSandwich is tasty.
04/16/2019 at 23:59

That’s what I thought. I found the listing on CL from a local recycling place and made a bit of a drive, hoping there would still be some left. As it turns out they still had the entire pallet full, not having sold a single one yet. The price was $100 with a 4GB stick and no drive hard drive (I have a few dozen...) and with a Windows CoA , but they gave a $10 credit for that one and charged $60 for the replacement 32GB. I was tempted to add another 32GB, but given the planned use for this machine that seemed like overkill . The E5 1603 will probably be sufficient, but there are plenty of options for faster CPUs for not much money.

Slant6 > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2020 at 20:16

How’s this holding up? I’m looking to buy a cheaper old Xeon workstation to use for work and these HPs seem to be everywhere. Right now I have a ba se 2013 27" iMac and it’s a horrible CAD machine. My boss said we could order a new one soon, but that was before the virus and most of my coworkers were laid off.

Sh e also insists on getting Macs, which whatever. While I’m working from home I figured I can use a personal machine and actually get work done instead of waiting for the iMac to unfreeze all day.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Slant6
04/16/2020 at 21:50

I love Macs, and have for years, especially back in the day when I was in corporate IT (and this was before OS X). These days I can’t justify the expense, and I cannot even remember the last time I fired up my trusty ol’ Mac mini or Hackintosh. Sure, I feel quite comfortable when using them, but they’re not that much better than the Win10 machines I’m running these days. It’s almost like cars in a way - I’ve loved the BMWs and the Porsche, but I find that my Mazda gives me 90% of the experience for much less money. As I get older and cheaper I’m more willing to accept this compromise in cars, computers and probably elsewhere.

But CAD? On a Mac? That doesn’t seem to be the optimal choice . An iMac is great for all sorts of things, but I suspect that doing what you’re doing is not one of them. The hardware itself is usually quite good (high-quality parts and reliability) , and that’s why I’d almost recommend not replacing the computer, but using Boot Camp to boot into Windows; you’ll still have OS X if you need to get into it . I’ve got a pile of laptops around here, but one of my favorites to use in an ancient (2008) MacBook Pro that had been to hell and back that I found at the Goodwill Outlet for less than $5. Even today it’s still quite a usable machine, and runs Win7 remarkably well. When I was teaching STEM flight simulation classes it was the machine I took with me to events, even though it’s a Core2 Duo. When I was teaching or doing demos I’d be running Windows, but if I was just surfing the web, doing email or writing reports I was more comfortable doing those in OS X. I probably have faster machines nowadays, but for one general purpose machine that could do everything, the trusty MBP was quite capable. I think I used the Windows license from an old machine that I bought in a pile of dead machines on CL, so I didn’t have to pay the full Windows tax to get it going; t he Boot Camp software was free from Apple .

So, back to the original question. This Xeon? Other than some occasional fan noise that I haven’t been bothered the track down it has been 100% trouble-free. I had replaced the CPU fan with one from a Z440 (I think that’s the model it cam from ) since it was capable of dissipating more heat, and I felt that this might be important after the CPU upgrade. ECC memory is cheap, and I’m almost tempted to throw in another 32GB, although it’s probably not necessary for my workload. It’s got a ton of RAM slots, so it’s not like I’d have to pull any out. This one has the 600W power supply, so I didn’t have to do any upgrades like I did to the old Elite 8300 (that one currently has a secondary power supply in it to drive the GTX 670). Even with the FirePro W7000, a bunch of memory and that 8-core CPU it doesn’t feel as snappy as my i7 but it’s a workhorse, plowing through whatever task I toss at it. I’ve been running it 24/7 for months now and it hasn’t let me down. Given how little I spent on it I’m quite pleased and wouldn’t hesitate to make the same (or similar) purchase again if I had to.

But before spending a bunch of money on another computer I’d recommend giving the Boot Camp solution a try and see if just changing to an OS that’ll probably function better with your work. I don’t know what app you’re using for CAD, but if it’s cross-platform I’d be willing to bet that it was originally written for Windows, and that might make it more reliable.

Slant6 > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
04/16/2020 at 22:29

I’m just thinking any halfway decent workstation will be better than the mobile i7-7820HQ I have in my personal laptop. Not that it’s a slouch by any means, but going from one or two big projects a semester in university to having dozens a week in professional practice has taken it’s toll. I’m also the only CAD person/ designer at my company so I’m typically working on multiple projects at a time. It also seems to have a lot of the same issues as the iMac does in Fusion 360. Could be that Fusion 360 is just buggy, but I feel like my workload might also have something to do with it.

I also love Macs. I saved up for my own Mac mini in highschool, have bought and sold used ones as a hobby for years now, I even have a 512KE in the box along with a Wallstreet Powerbook back at my parent’s house . As a designer I love them, they really make a nice product... they are just not the right set up for CAD. If I didn’t have such high demands for a computer I would easily own one as my primary machine.

I’m really frustrated with my work iMac right now. I wanna say I spend 60% of my work day looking at the pinwheel, w aiting for it to unfreeze, or just outright crashing. I still manage to meet deadlines, but I know I could be way more productive if I didn’t have to deal with this. Funny enough, our marketing person, who came on after me got a brand new 2019 6 core i5 iMac when she started. Now she uses Photoshop and stuff and doesn’t necessarily have a light workload, but I find it all the more frustrating that I have the essential task of making all production drawings for the company on the oldest machine in the office (besides the owner who is still rocking a 2010 iMac. He refuses to learn any CAD, which is good because it means I have a job).

Before we were all sent home for the virus I had a meeting with my boss about the computer and they agreed to buy a new one soon . I brought up how PC would be a much better value and be a better tool for the job but I got a pretty hard “no” albeit in a very soft and kind southern charm voice. Anyway we agreed on either an i9 iMac or a refurb iMac Pro. Not complaining there, they will be fine machines. Just not sure why I can’t use Windows or use a PC. They’ve just always have been Mac people. Oh well.

I’d also just like a workstation as something to play with. Always fun doing small little upgrades. I just want to be able to get my job done at the speed I know it could be.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Slant6
04/16/2020 at 22:46

Hmm. I have found that a Mac generally doesn’t need an OS reinstall over the years, but maybe it’s time to give that a try. If the computer doesn’t have an SSD, perhaps buy a cheap one and a USB3 case (if your machine has USB3 - I don’t know when Apple started using it) so you can use it externally and try a fresh install of the OS and Fusion 360. Or maybe the app is just garbage and isn’t going to run any better regardless of platform or age of the computer.

I certainly won’t discourage you from getting a cheap workstation, even if it’s just a plaything. Unlike consumer-grade machines, they’re generally better built and more reliable, but the downside can be the lack of standard PC parts, like the power supply. As long as you don’t go too crazy with the upgrades the PS should be fine, especially if you manage to find one with the bigger PS. My HPs have served me well, whereas I found the Dells to be a little trickier to work on and tweak.